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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:44 pm 
Regular
Regular

Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 12:55 pm
Posts: 56
* What kind of software do you mainly develop with NHibernate?
- Framework used by both WinForms and Web Applications

* How would you qualify these softwares?
- Professional / Commercial
- Enterprise Application
-- Used in internal apps and public facing websites.

* NHibernate experiences?
- Why have you selected NHibernate?
-- POCO. I'd prefer a blend of NH and NPersist, but it came down to offline POCO usage.
- The features you like
-- Love the OO (ORM) approach and feel. Love that NH is fast. Maybe it could be faster, but for now I think it is fast enough.
- The features you want
-- .NET 2.0 feature support, nice support tools for creating maps and classes. getting better though

* About the documentation?
-- I think it is good, getting better with time.
-- More community envolvement with tutorials and apps will make it better
-- Every once in a while I see an example in the forum of an advanced use of NH. Most of my use (and others likely) is simple, primarily due to not knowing or understanding advanced usage. A samples/demos section on the wiki would be nice and much easier to find than in the forums.


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 Post subject: Re: NHibernate Survey
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:49 pm 
* What kind of software do you mainly develop with NHibernate?
- Web Applications
- Libraries / Services

+ ASP.NET 2.0, VS.NET 2005, MS SQL Server 2000

* How would you qualify these softwares?
- Professional / Commercial

* NHibernate experiences?
- Why have you selected NHibernate?
Free, Similar in functionality to my own half-baked ORM and works with the way I think about objects/data.

- The features you want (that aren't available)
.NET 2.0 features. Generics, etc.

* About the documentation? (We are currently working hard to improve it...)
- How easy/hard is it to learn using NHibernate?
I grasped mapping files rather easily as I was already doing something similar. Took some experimenting to figure out how to best use it under an ASP.NET context. Existing Hibernate docs worked pretty good for HQL questions.


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 Post subject: Survey Response
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:50 am 
Newbie

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 11:39 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Australia
Here is a "form" you can fill if you want to give your opinion / suggestions about NHibernate
Note that these information will heavily influence our future works, so don't hesitate to stress what is important for you Wink

What kind of software do you mainly develop with NHibernate?
- Winforms apps at the moment, but evaluating for web.

Details about the development & production environments
Windows 2003 servers, Multiple SQL databases, Multiple Simulataneous Winforms clients

How would you qualify these softwares?
- Highly scalable, performant, secure, reliable, ... Enterprise Application

Why have you selected NHibernate?

I have recently been writing software to model supply chains. .Net is fantastic, however I've never satisfactorily solved the issue of object persistance. I've just used NH in a large app which is nearing completion.

Something you have done that you never thought would be possible / simple.

Adding a persisted property to an object. It doesn't get much easier than with NH!

The pros & cons (that you have to deal with when using NHibernate)

Good - I love most of this tool. It's fantastic. I particularly like the IInterceptor.Onload Method. This was a fantastic help in giving all instantiated objects a reference to our 'root'/'application' object.

Bad - I personally had huge issues with the lazy loading features. It is highly restrictive that you cannot use lazy loading if you've closed your session. On one hand, NH has incredible lazy loading abiliites, however, all the forums say that you should avoid keeping sessions open. If this is the case, then lazy loading is rendered pretty void. i wish there was a way to get NH to automatically open another session whenever it needed to lazy load. We needed lazy loading and so, made the decision to keep a session open for the execution of the app (it was winforms). This works ok. There was however one feature which I found very peculiar. if the session is open and you change an object, NH apparently 'might' automatically persist it to the table without you calling save! We worked around this by catching the on save event and only allowing it to go ahead if a flag had been manually set on the object...


The features you want (that aren't available)
It would be great if NH could manage an object bank/cache that only had one instance of each object. eg - if I loaded two collections (separately) with userid=5, they should return the same instance of the object. This proved to be a big disadvantage to us.

How easy/hard is it to learn using NHibernate?
It was very easy to learn the basics, however it was Moderate to difficult finding work arounds for 'issues'.

- What are the parts you would like to see better documented?
Better description of the collectons, in particular, mapping IDictionary/IList/IHash to their respective collection classes.

- What kind of samples / demo applications? With which features?
1/ Simple Web app
2/ Complex Web app
3/ Simple Winforms app
4/ Complex Winforms app

Samples should demonstrate all collection classes and lazy loading.


If you have anything else to add ...
FANTASTIC effort guys. NH is an excellent tool. I'm caught between a bit of a rock and a hard place. The truth be told, NH caused us a lot of headaches with 'complex' joins in our application (all of which we got around) however, I'm hooked on it! I can't bear to give it up. I think in the next major app that I build, I will use NH, however less of the features. I think that I will build my own object cache and store objects there after NH as instatiated them. That way, I can have guarantee only one instance of an 'logical' object at a time.
[/b]


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 Post subject: Survey Response
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:21 am 
* What kind of software do you mainly develop with NHibernate?
- Windows Applications

+ Details about the development & production environments:
Dev Env:
o Windowx XP (Home edition)

Production Env:
o Windows XP/Win 2k.

* How would you qualify these softwares?
- Pet projects

* NHibernate experiences?
- Why have you selected NHibernate?
I have been using Hibernate extensively in Java web based application (with Spring) and was pretty much impressed by it.. :)

- The features you like / dislike (=> should be improved)
There is a problem that I am currtently faciing. BTW, this is a problem in the Java version of it as well. If I have multiple collections(each collection reffering to a differenty collection of entities) for an entity, NHiberate seems to fail. I am currently working on a work-around for this.
<B>Not sure if I need to raise this issue in JIRA.:?</B>

- The features you want (that aren't available)
Refer to the features u like/dislike.

* About the documentation? (We are currently working hard to improve it...)
- How easy/hard is it to learn using NHibernate?
In general, the documentation is quire poor. I was able to work on a bit smoothly because I am also working on Hibernate. The documentation for the associations is very poor. The sample from Wilson is a very good place to start with.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:29 pm 
Beginner
Beginner

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:22 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Chicago, IL
* What kind of software do you mainly develop with NHibernate?
WinForms, Libraries, WebForms, WebServices
Migrated all projects to .Net 2.0 Visual Studio 2005, SQL Server 2005
-- I feel bad for you 1.1 guys, you don't know what your missing. :wink:

* How would you qualify these softwares?
Professional, Commercial, Enterprise.
From my work with the software it is solid and the documentation and feature sets are what need some extra work to bring NHibernate to the next level. I think once NHibernate can get a .Net 2.0 Generics centric library available with some of the new features of Hibernate 3.0 it will be an awesome enterprise level product. I would like lazy loading at the column level, native generic collection support, more flexible subclass configurations, support for batches and stored procedures.

* NHibernate experiences?
I have been using NHibernate for only a month still developing a project that will deploy soon. NHibernate has been a godsend. Prior to using NHibernate we were rolling our own DAL libraries which was tedious, time consuming, error prone, and much harder to work in features like Unit Of Work, Versioning, 2nd Level Caching. I am so glad we made the move to good O/R mapping tool.

- Why have you selected NHibernate?
NHibernate was chosen for two main reasons. One, the success and maturity of the Java Hibernate project, and second the open source factor. We were previously rolling our own DAL and our application is dealing with complex class hierarchies and associations, so moving to an open source tool we thought could buy us flexibility. Some commercial tools were looked at but after trial versions failed to show the true advantages over NHibernate it wasn


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 Post subject: Re: NHibernate Survey
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:52 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:30 pm
Posts: 3
* What kind of software do you mainly develop with NHibernate?

Windows Applications

+ Details about the development & production environments.

SQL Server 2000, Windows Server 2003, VS 2003, Win 2000.

* How would you qualify these softwares?

Well, I can't say at present that they are any more than
- Pet projects
However, once complete they will be
- Professional / Commercial

* NHibernate experiences?
- Why have you selected NHibernate?

I searched on the net for a few days and this seemed to be the one that everyone kept mentioning.
I considered those quasi O/R mappers that just generated code and were apparently "more flexible" because they didn't bind your approach. However on understanding the fact that NHibernate can implement the OO elements perfectly in the DB really swung it for me.
Additionally the fact that this technology has a grounding in Java with many users and is up to version 3 and of course the fact that the project is open source.

- Something you have done that you never thought would be possible / simple

Write an operational OO data layer in the space of a few hours. Wow....

- The features you like / dislike (=> should be improved)

I'm perfectly happy with the system as is.
I'm not using too many of the advanced aspects yet. I guess i may add to this once i've used it some more.

+ the pros & cons (that you have to deal with when using NHibernate)
- The features you want (that aren't available)

Same as above.

* About the documentation? (We are currently working hard to improve it...)
- How easy/hard is it to learn using NHibernate?

It's pretty easy to get a simple system up and running, sure it isn't as easy as being held by the hand but the documentation on the Hibernate site and the NHibernate site cover most of the initial problems.

However as soon as you start trying to make relatively complex collections or start using more advanced features things get a lot more difficult.

- What are the parts you would like to see better documented?

HQL, I still don't understand why this as powerful as people are saying.

Implementations of the different types of inheritance that can be used.
What i'd really like to see documented is an approach to the architecture of an NHibernate data layer, the samples are all good but once you start trying to do anything more difficult you end up with nagging suspicions that you're not setting things up in the right way.
Because I ported from a relational model to this OO model it was difficult to confidently know what changes I should make to the data layer and if any of those changes could have adverse results.

- What kind of samples / demo applications? With which features?

Collections, lazy loading (with proxies too), demonstrations of implementation of the different ways of mapping inheritance, table per class, table per subclass etc, HQL.
-
If you have anything else to add ... :)

Nothing apart from the fact I love NHibernate, you've got me completely hooked and i'm sure to use this technology in some form or another in every application where it is applicable.
Thank you very much for all of the hard work.


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 Post subject: Re: NHibernate Survey
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:54 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:29 pm
Posts: 16
* What kind of software do you mainly develop with NHibernate?
Working on a web application on top of SQL server 2000 (soon 2005), exposing the data from a .NET Web Service.

* How would you qualify these softwares?
- Pet projects
- Professional / Commercial
- Highly scalable, performant, secure, reliable, ... Enterprise Application ;)
I'm building http://www.foodcandy.com. It (does) will scale to millions of users just fine. Taking experience notably from Microsoft Billing where we built something very similar to NHibernate five years ago.

* NHibernate experiences?
It's straightforward. There're good tools not to worry about the mapping - I use ObjectMapper from PuzzleFramework. I really like the SetMaxResults and SetFirstResult straighforwardness of options because paging through millions of results doesn't work otherwise. I am looking forward to the NHibernate folk to implement this using the new SQL Server 2005 extensions for fetching N-N+page results, so I get performance improvements for free :)

* About the documentation? (We are currently working hard to improve it...)
I am almost not using the doc. Mostly because I don't deal with the internals of object mapping, Puzzle does. What would be valuable is more tools, like query analyzer. I think I saw one somewhere, but didn't try it yet.

I think NHibernate is great. It saves me hours of time. If it goes to the right direction, with new versions that I can simply swap with older versions and things run better, I am sticking to it for a long time.

Thx!
dB.


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 Post subject: Answers :-)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:50 am 
Beginner
Beginner

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:13 am
Posts: 27
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
* What kind of software do you mainly develop with NHibernate?
- Web based intranet applications
+ 20 to 80 tables, strong use of domain model / inheritance, modeling using Enterprise architects, 2 to 5 developers, SQL Server 2005, architecture depend on NHibernate

* How would you qualify these softwares?
- Professional / Commercial
- Highly scalable, performant, secure, reliable, ... Enterprise Application ;)

* NHibernate experiences?
I used some other O/R mappers before, but it has many disadvantages.
I like quite domain model freedom, I like to have decoupled domain model in more assemblies.
I dont like restriction of abstract classes, lazy cannot have abstract methods or I dont know how to do it.
I want to have possibility for runtime modification of saved queries in xml files before execution.
I need to have possibility of running stored procedures returning data insted of plain SQL.
I really need support for .NET 2.0 features (at least generic collections and nullables.

* About the documentation? (We are currently working hard to improve it...)
It is still week :-).
- How easy/hard is it to learn using NHibernate?
Hard :-). There is not architecture patterns available, best practices.
- What are the parts you would like to see better documented?
I would like examples of all UML asociations in the mapping and code.
- What kind of samples / demo applications? With which features?
Application with complex bussines rules checks and rich domain model.

Many thanks fo very great tool! I really enjoy NHibernate.


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 Post subject: Re: NHibernate Survey
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:04 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:13 am
Posts: 1
* What kind of software do you mainly develop with NHibernate?
- Windows Applications
- Libraries / Services
+ Details about the development & production environments.
business software as a real product

* How would you qualify these softwares?
- Professional / Commercial

* NHibernate experiences?

- The features you want (that aren't available)
-> .Net 2.0 Support (Generics, Nullables)
-> Asynchronous support

* About the documentation? (We are currently working hard to improve it...)
- How easy/hard is it to learn using NHibernate?
hard

- What are the parts you would like to see better documented?
- What kind of samples / demo applications? With which features?
rich clients with Windows Forms and data binding


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:29 am 
Newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:23 am
Posts: 4
* What kind of software do you mainly develop with NHibernate?
- Web Applications
- Libraries / Services

* How would you qualify these softwares?
- Professional / Commercial
- Highly scalable, performant, secure, reliable, ... Enterprise Application ;)

* NHibernate experiences?
- Why have you selected NHibernate?
Really, really, really tired with ADO.Net and DataSets and the poor data abstraction technologies they provide.

Also, it's good to not have any mapping information in the actual classes.

- Something you have done that you never thought would be possible / simple
Just being able to use stongly-typed objects and lazy loading... it really makes my day.

- The features you like / dislike (=> should be improved)
The exceptions could give more information about where and how the actual error occurs, these can be quite cumbersome at times.

+ the pros & cons (that you have to deal with when using NHibernate)
It's hard to be aware that you are still using the database in the background. So you still have to be aware of e.g. lazy loading (which means that you need to eager fetching in order to not take a performance hit (or introduce a N+1 select issue) when doing bulk processing, with e.g. lists.

- The features you want (that aren't available)
So far, I haven't been able to find out if it is possible to tie a SessionFactory to multiple database instances. It would also be good to have some more of Hibernate 3.1 stuff in NHibernate.

* About the documentation? (We are currently working hard to improve it...)
- How easy/hard is it to learn using NHibernate?
There is a steep learning curve, but there is one with any 'complete' data layer technology.

- What are the parts you would like to see better documented?
Everything! But especially the SDK documentation and the mappings self.

I'm really glad somebody went out and to this port of Hibernate. It makes .Net development so much more... professional. Using datasets, as Microsoft promotes really doesn't work for any large-scale development projects.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:17 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:25 am
Posts: 4
* What kind of software do you mainly develop with NHibernate?
- Web applications and libraries for reuse.

* How would you qualify these softwares?
- Professional / Commercial
- Highly scalable high performance web applications.

* NHibernate experiences?
- This has been a great tool. I look forward to see it mature under the Hibernate project.

- Why have you selected NHibernate?
- It is based on the well-known time tested Hibernate project. While I'm pretty good at SQL / stored procedures, I hate splitting business logic into proprietary languages (such as sql procs).

+ the pros & cons (that you have to deal with when using NHibernate)
- Pros - close implementation to Hibernate.
- Cons - Missing some very important features.

- The features you want (that aren't available)
- Multiple collection support in HQL queries. Unlike Hibernate, NHibernate doesn't even support chains of multiple collections. HQL functioning should be just like SQL and this should not be a hard problem to solve.
- Stored Procedure support. For those few times when you can't get away from using a sproc, this is a very important feature.

- The features you like / dislike (=> should be improved)
- HQL error handling could also use a bit of improvement.

I love this tool and do see it as being the best of the OR mappers for .net; however, it will be very nice to see it catch up with Hibernate 3.0, particularly in the aformentioned features.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:15 pm 
Beginner
Beginner

Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:13 pm
Posts: 44
Location: Denver, CO
* What kind of software do you mainly develop with NHibernate?
- Web Applications (ASP.NET 2.0)
- Libraries (C# 2.0)

* How would you qualify these softwares?
- Professional / Commercial
- I'm currently development a project management tool using it for the Utah Transit Authority; there will be lots of users, but it's basically a big CRUD application
- Highly scalable, performant, secure, reliable, ... Enterprise Application ;)
- I used NHibernate for the development of a rather complicated project. The performance needs were insane and NHibernate did very well. (We began development with NHibernate 0.6.) We had to use stored procs just a couple of times for performance reasons. But overall, I was very impressed with how it's held up.

* NHibernate experiences?
- Why have you selected NHibernate?
- Because writing a custom data layer is a waste of time and because IBatis didn't have a published book about it when it came time to selecting one or the other. (You can thank Hibernate in Action for that! ;)
- Something you have done that you never thought would be possible / simple
- Tying NHibernate to Northwind for the first time last year just blew me away...seemed like earie black magic - that's a good thing.
- The features you like / dislike (=> should be improved)
- I don't like having HBM files separate from my business objects...I wish I had the option to use attributes from within the business objects themselves. The Castle ActiveRecord project is a good example of this.
- The features you want (that aren't available)
- I wish I could call a stored proc from NHibernate either to simply execute it or to have it return a value or to have it return a full-blown business object.

* About the documentation? (We are currently working hard to improve it...)
- Hibernate in Action helped me more than anything
- There isn't much documentation with respect to "putting it all together" or best practices for including NHibernate within an enterprise application...I've written an article on this subject at the codeproject.com: http://www.codeproject.com/useritems/NHibernateBestPractices.asp. I'd love to get the NHibernate team's feedback on this. Thanks!

Overall, I absolutely love NHibernate. Anymore, it's ludicrous for me to imagine writing stored procedures and a heavy data-access layer. After the success I had developing the aforementioned product for my client, I'll never do a project without it. To give a better idea of how extensively it was used, the project it was used on has almost 100 SQL tables which are queried by a custom-built rules engine. Some pages required bringing back 100s of objects from the database in separate queries for rules analysis. NHibernate did great.


Last edited by wmccafferty on Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Poll Response
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:41 am 
Newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:30 pm
Posts: 13
* What kind of software do you mainly develop with NHibernate?
- Windows Applications
- Web Applications
All MS. SQL Server 2000, Windows XP, Windows Server 2003, C#, ASP.Net.

* How would you qualify these softwares?
- Pet projects

* NHibernate experiences?
- Why have you selected NHibernate?
Open Source, community support, and the natural object model paradigm.
- The features you like / dislike (=> should be improved)
+ the pros & cons (that you have to deal with when using NHibernate)
The detail in the exceptions that are thrown has been very helpful. Props to all the developers who make their throws really useful.
- The features you want (that aren't available).
As a new user, I won't dare comment on what might be missing -- whatever I put down may well be here already.

* About the documentation? (We are currently working hard to improve it...)
- How easy/hard is it to learn using NHibernate? The NHibernate QuickStart was very easy to use. The forums helped me make sense out of relationship mapping. The 'reference' Help is not useful to me. Since it's just a copy of the class interfaces, I can see those from the namespace contents and class interfaces and method signatures. The help would be more helpful with code examples where the different classes and methods are demonstrated.
- What are the parts you would like to see better documented?
Querying.
- What kind of samples / demo applications? With which features?
Relationship mapping and querying.

Thanks,
Steve Brennan


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 Post subject: NHibernate survey
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:28 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:27 am
Posts: 1
* What kind of software do you mainly develop with NHibernate?
- Web Applications
- Libraries / Services

+ VB.NET, VS.NET 2003, Oracle 9 DB, Access 2000

* How would you qualify these softwares?
- Professional / Commercial

* NHibernate experiences?
- Why have you selected NHibernate?
Beginner, it's one of our company standards for O/R mapping.

- The features you want (that aren't available)

* About the documentation? (We are currently working hard to improve it...)
- How easy/hard is it to learn using NHibernate?
Better than J2EE, but lack of example with VB.NET and Oracle. Actually, we had a good start with MySQL but still fail with Oracle.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:31 am 
Newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:17 am
Posts: 6
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
* What kind of software do you mainly develop with NHibernate?
Currently only a Web application for a customer (for trying out NHibernate, a bit risky for a project with a deadline ;-). It seems to be a success, so if better tools are developed, I will start using it in all my future applications (Windows applications)

+ Details about the development & production environments.
I currently use Delphi 2005 (.Net 1.1) for building the business layer, and Visual Studio 2005 (.Net 2.0) for the presentation layer (just for trying out that combination), and it works very well.

I use the NHibernate XML mapping file both in Delphi and Visual Studio, so they share the same mapping.


* How would you qualify these softwares?
- Professional / Commercial
- Highly scalable, performant, secure, reliable, ... Enterprise Application ;)

* NHibernate experiences?

- Why have you selected NHibernate?
The past 10 years I have been waiting for a object mapping framework like this, and now it finally seems to be a reality :-)

- Something you have done that you never thought would be possible / simple

having my less-experinced co-worker develop the presentation layer and big parts of the business layer without having to worry about SQL is a breakthrough for me...

- The features you like / dislike (=> should be improved)

I really like the XML-mapping files because they enable me to share the mapping across the development platforms.

The major feature that I miss is really a mapping tool with the ability to use/import my hand-coded mapping files, and maybe even import a database schema. I looked at ObjectMapper and it only exports code.

If there only were a road-map for these tools, so I could see what efforts is put in this in the future, then I wouldn't worry about that a second, because I can live without it to begin with, but it will really be necessary for my future projects.

I wonder if the Eclipse version of Hibernate Tools could support NHibernate-mapping files and generate C# code?


* About the documentation? (We are currently working hard to improve it...)

- How easy/hard is it to learn using NHibernate?

Quite easy actually. I was inspired by a very comprehensive 40-page article series about using NHibernate in Delphi, which was found in The Delphi Magazine. Actually it is the best documentation I ever found for NHibernate, could almost be recommended for non-Delphi users :-)

It was a bit tricky to understand how relationships and bags are mapped, but mostly because it was hard to find examples when I started... the forum is a great help!

- What are the parts you would like to see better documented?
Which tools that are available (and working well) with NHibernate. I didn't find the Query Analyzer until 10 weeks after I started.

- What kind of samples / demo applications? With which features?
I love the ASP.NET sample of Benjamin Day, because it is an example of a "real" architecture draft split into separate layers: http://blog.benday.com/archive/2005/10/25/3054.aspx

Would be really cool with a comprehensive sample like this, with all the "hard core" mapping and tuning tips collected in one demo application.


-and finally. I think you are doing an amazing job with NHibernate, I am looking forward to see what will come in the future !!


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